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billyfish · Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 51

I am sorry some of the posts on here are out of order. To put the record straight we have a serious problem here thats getting around all the people supposed to stop it. Its clear that countries like Sweden and Canada have the highest rates of crohns and also milk consumption. Sweden has a low rate of Johnes but like canada imports much of its milk. compare this to countries like china, where milk is still out of fashion.

It does not help our cause if people put things on here that make us all look silly. I got a newsletter today from an organisation here supposed to help people with colitis and crohns (NACC). All people with these conditions have been excluded from the uk bowel cancer screening programme.

I can only conclude that NACC have done nothing about this and our government are acting in an irrational way that will result in lives being lost.

david.crichton · Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 83

We do have a terrible problem. Drug companies continue to have their way, continually putting out me-too drugs that do nothing but strangle integral parts of our immune system, and doctors continue to use them in new trials - eg ABT 874, Tysabri... And doctors won't even tell their patients that maybe it would be a good idea to avoid milk, beef or other dairy products

I don't understand: CD/UC patients are the ones most in need of bowel cancer screening?

That is interesting about Sweden and importing milk. I know the epidemiological study that I posted drew a tentative inference that because Sweden has a low incidence of Johne's, a strong connection to MAP and Crohn's is not evident. But, as you say, if Sweden imports most of its milk, there needs not be a strong correlation between Johne's and Crohn's. This just goes to show how amazingly complicated any epidemiological study must be in order to really look at every aspect.

China and Korea's incidences of Crohn's are increasing, and MAP has been strongly associated with Crohn's patients in a small Chinese study:

The rapidly increasing incidence means that there has to be something that has changed in the environment...MAP?

From an old post by that quack Dr. Nick (Rapidly Increasing Incidence of IBD In A Korean District http://crohnscanada.myfastforum.org/about46.html):
Seroprevalence of Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis in Korean black goats (Capra hircus aegagrus).

Lee KW, Jung BY, Moon OK, Yang DK, Lee SH, Kim JY, Kweon CH.
Animal Disease Diagnosis Division, National Veterinary Research and Quarantine Service, Manan, Anyang, Gyeonggi, Korea.

In total, 582 sera from 116 black goat herds were analyzed by a commercially available ELISA kit to monitor the seroprevalence of Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis (Mpt) in Korean black goats (Capra hircus aegagrus). The mean number of goats sampled per herd was 5.11, 4.66, and 5.38 for the northern, central, and southern regions of Korea, respectively. The apparent regional prevalence of Mpt was estimated at 18.2-38.2% and 4.6-15.3% for herds and goats, respectively. The Mpt-positive goats were predominantly detected in the south (n=28), compared to either the northern (n=9) or central (n=11) regions (chi=14.459, P<0.05). Our findings indicate that Mpt is prevalent among the goat population, but regional variation exists.

Where does Seoul get its dairy and beef products from, North/South, or does it matter?

admin · Site Admin Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 60

Hi, how r u doing? Glad to have you back on the discussion forum. Tell me Alan, do you know where Sweden imports its milk from. Also, what about Canada? Diane F

admin · Site Admin Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 60

David, I wish to thank you for your posts and I really appreciate the back up articles.
It is important that any information posted to this forum, have the back up articles included, as many people use this forum. Actually thousands of people use this site for information on crohns and Map. Crohnscanada is one of the larger websites and has provided an abundant amount of information on the link between Map and Crohn's disease. So thank you, once again. Diane Fagen

billyfish · Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 51

The reason people with IBD are excluded from uk bowel cancer screening is a systems problem. The first stage of the screening is a stool test for blood. As its quite normal for crohn/colitis people to leak blood, the politicians dont want to scare us with this scheme. Its wrong, thats why we have NACC, they have let us down.

I might volunteer for it and see what happens? I have heard that if you score positive a courier brings the result on a motorcycle, its free and they do mean well but its the people who devised the scheme that need help.

Its quite easy to get milk consumption figures off the internet, I will post the ones on here when I find the papers.

Exploited · Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 42

If the MAP bug suppresses the immune system then by all means MAP infected people are at a huge chance of cancer compared to non-infected people.

The general consensus among the top scientists is that cancer is a result of immune system failure. The tumors form as a result of the bodies inability to control cellular division. So zapping the tumor with radiation only addresses the symptom, rather than the cause.

Its so interesting that a healthy immune system is capable of killing tumors and thus curing cancer, probably why we have all had cancer 1000x times in our life but do not die of it.

Now you all think I'm nuts, but here is an article proving I'm right, well Dr. Robert c Beck is right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/...=/earth/2008/06/18/scicanc118.xml

They injected a patient with his own immune system cells, cloned many times, and they attacked the tumor curing his cancer.

As Beck said, when the immune system is unloaded, it can do its job and kill the cancer cells.

billyfish · Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 51

This subject emergerged in the spring 2008 NACC news when a doctor urged members to participate in bowel screening. The summer 2008 issue I received last week has a letter from someone who was sent an invite to take part. It contained words to the effect that if the recepient had crohns or colitis to phone a free telephone number. The free number has a recording that says that we are unsuitable to participate in this programme. NACC have confirmed that people with IBD are excluded from the programme.

The scheme is for people over 60. People like myself do not get an invite because our doctor have a record that we have IBD so we are excluded.

This is clearly a form of disability discrimination and I am going to take it further.

billyfish · Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 51

It looks like there is a relationship between high milk consumption and crohns, also type 1 diabetes, that might be MAP related.

Someone need to research this, also in hot countries where milk does not keep because of a lack of refrigeration, it is boiled, the crohns is absent.

Iceland, where hardly any milk is imported, and they have the highest milk consumption per capita worldwide, is suposed to have the highest rate of UC, but figures I found show that 318 patients out of 250,000 inhabitants over 30 years . The most significant number is that only 33 people had crohns in the 30 year period.

Maybe iceland is a MAP free island? Sweden, with the same genetic background has one of the highest rates of crohns, seems to have map free cows, but figures show that they import much of their milk,

Maybe a nearby country sends them reject milk, I dont know, but they also have a high rate of type 1 diabetes there.

The only other odd thing about sweden is their low smoking rate and high use of non smoking tobacco, all 9 million of them?

david.crichton · Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 83

Iceland, practically one of the corner pieces in the puzzle:

http://www.who.int/water_sanitati...lth/emerging/en/patmycrobact6.pdf

billyfish · Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 51

Hi, thanks for that, regarding the strange policy of the uk towards cancer screening I set up a petition on the Prime Minister website, they agreed it today,

I think this is one that can be won, its on,

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/crohnscancer/ (uk residents only)

Regarding Iceland, thats an interesting article but only about 300,000 people live there, so its a small sample,