crohnscanada.myfastforum.org

admin · Site Admin Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 42

Please let me know how you feel about this subject. Do you agree or do you disagree?

jon · Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Posts: 2

Hi,

I've been watching your website (crohnscanada.org) with great interest for a number of years! I have suffered from Crohn's disease for about 13 years now. I actually tested positive for MAI back in 1996 before I was diagnosed, so I feel that there is a 99% chance that I'm infected with MAP. I've just started treatment with antibiotics, and don't know how it will turn out yet.

Keep up the good work on the website! I hope to be involved in spreading the work about MAP as well.

Jon

admin · Site Admin Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 42

I am so glad to hear from you. It is really nice to get some feedback. Where are you from Jon, was it difficult to get the antibiotics. May I ask which antibiotics you are taking? I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Wink

Thanks Diane

jon · Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Posts: 2

Hi Diane,

I'm from Maryland. It took a lot of time (and patience) for my GI doctor to be persuaded to treat me. I don't think he would have done it at all if it wasn't for the fact that I had the MAI diagnosis from 1996. I also consulted in person with a doctor in Texas that has been successfully treating patients.

I started out on Azithromycin, Mycobutin, and Moxifloxacin. I had unpleasant side effects with the Moxi, and also with its relative, Levaquin, so I had to stop them. The Mycobutin at first caused my white blood counts to drop to under 2000, so I had to stop it temporarily. I'm successfully back on it now at 1/2 dose, at the recommendation of Professor Hermon-Taylor from London. I'm not sure yet if I will be able to go back up to full dose or not.

I will keep you posted on my treatment! Good to hear from you, too. -Jon

Tim@TCCC.UK · Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject:

Is Johne's Disease The Same As Crohns Disease ?

The dairy cow that suffers with Johne's Disease suffers in exactly the same way as a sufferer of Crohns Disease in most cases. The link is MAP Mycobacterium Avium <- sub species Paratuberculosis. The mother cow can pass the MAP to the unborn calf, as it can to another member of the same herd. The pastures / fields become contaminated everyday for a year through the cow's faeces. MAP survives a year in cow's faeces. This goes on to contaminate water supplies, other animals in the Environment, and then onto humans, who may not have caught Crohns from the cow's milk.
_________________
The Chronic Crohns Campaign UK

Raising Awareness & Funds For This Chronic Illness Across The World.

sh!+_stains · Joined: 07 Feb 2008 Posts: 40

in a not exact quote from Dr. Tom Borody: "if it walks likes a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be auto-immune" . exactly stupid. lets make up auto-immune diseases so we can explain things we don't know. if it looks like an infection and sounds like one, it must be auto-immune

I currently believe they are the same

Tim@TCCC.UK

Hi Everyone

The answer to this question is definately YES. When an animal, cow, deer or buffalo for example, gets Johne's Disease, it will suffer in exactly the same way as a human does with Crohn's Disease. Most noticably loss of weight, the runs to the loo, extremely runny faeces on the pasture, contaminated with MAP, no energy, but most importantly internal inflamation caused by the same bacteria MAP, Mycobacterium sub species avium ( from the bird ) Paratuberculosis, which causes Crohn's Disease in humans. The human being cannot make this bacteria MAP, it has to come from an outside source, where ? most say, what has the same MAP bacteria ? The infected Dairy Cow has MAP in it's intestine, which transfers through it's milk, and pasteurised milk, to humans via the human food chain. MAP is also found in water supplies, as contaminated faeces, which go on to pollute the environment & other suseptible animals such as Bison, Apes, Cotton Top Tamarins & those mentioned earlier. etc. MAP survives a year in every cow faeces.

Hope this helps answer your thoughts on this matter of the Crohns & Johnes being one and the same. BSE / CJD another cross species illness/ disease.
_________________
The Chronic Crohns Campaign UK

Raising Awareness & Funds For This Chronic Illness Across The World.

sh!+_stains · Joined: 07 Feb 2008 Posts: 40

another striking similarity between the two is that both seem to affect young people/calves and both seem to fester sometimes before clinical symptoms really emerge

an interesting study would be if one could take a lot of the controls that have tested positive for Map infection in the past and see if they have subsequently come down with crohn's, meaning they have tested positive just while in the subclinical symptoms stage. or check their genetics for mutations that are being studied as potential susceptibility indicators for mycobaterial infections to see if that would explain the lack of clinical disease

admin · Site Admin Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 42

Hi Tim

I fully agree, I have no doubt that Johne's and Crohn's are absolutely the same disease. Originally Dr. Kennedy Dalziel said he saw the similarity between Johne's disease in cattle and crohn's disease in humans. Quoting his words" Dr. Dalziel pointed out in his paper that though to the naked eye the diseases were identical, the lack of bacilli made them very different." In otherwords the only difference was the fact that he could not see the bacilli in humans as he could in cattle.

But, because he could not see it with the naked eye and culture it, he could not meet with Koch's postulates, I guess he had to let it go, and then Dr. Burrill Bernard Crohn also believed that the two diseases, Johne's in cattle and Crohn's in humans were caused by the same pathogen, but he was unable to isolate the pathogen, as Mycobacterium paratuberculosis sheds its cellular in humans and takes the form of a spheroplast.
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If they would have known at the time that Mycobacterium paratuberculosis sheds its cellular in humans and takes the form of a spheroplast, I am sure that Crohn' disease would have taken the original name of Johne's disease.

admin · Site Admin Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 42

Hi, sh!+_stains

Welcome to Crohnscanada discussion forum. So glad to have you here. Thank you for posting