crohnscanada.myfastforum.org

david.crichton · Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 83

CBC The National did a piece on the association between MAP and Crohn's.

Check it out and download it here:
http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/v...cattle_and_crohns_connection.html

Not sure how long it will stay online but, if you can, dowload now and watch it later.

admin · Site Admin Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 60

David, this is the best news I have received in a long time regarding crohn's disease. Sorry I did not reply sooner, but I only found out about it today from your email. I have been in and out of emergency this week with my cousin and I am also in process of trying to write a book.

They keyword there is trying, I am finding it very upsetting, remembering the last 25 years, its amazing what one can go through and still cope. Anyway, lets hope the National decides to put together a 60 minute program. Diane F

david.crichton · Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 83

No worries. I hope your cousin is doing better.

I can't wait to read your book! Definitely hoping for more media coverage on the MAP issue...

Testing of cows could cost as little as $10/year/cow and could make a proven difference. And let's face it, whether MAP is the causative agent or not, it is not doing IBD patients any good. This seems to be something that a lot of people and doctors forget/neglect.

admin · Site Admin Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 60

Hi David
You are right, the Map shouldn't be there at all, I don't know why everyone is arguing over semantics. The bottom line here is that we are eating sick cows and drinking milk from sick cows, somehow that is not right, whether it causes crohn's or not.

The National didn't put my comment up, I guess its because I talked about the Quebec government and quoted them. Or maybe it was an oversight. Anyways I made another comment, so we will see if it appears tomorrow. If you were here David, I would give you a high five, way to go. hugs Diane

billyfish · Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 50

Congratulations Laughing

I have looked at the video and there are some of missing sound clips, is this an edited version I am seeing?

Its a shame that so many people have phobia about healthy eating.

I was quite impressed with the graph showing the rate of spread by Johne's. where can I get a copy of that? Idea

It's what is called exponential growth, the same as the rate of hospital crohns admissions in the UK.

david.crichton · Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 83

Which missing sound clips do you mean? If you are talking about when they go to Dr. Bernstein and you can faintly hear him say something along the lines of "they want a cure", then yeah, I noticed the missing audio too.

It is a shame that people don't eat more healthy foods. Even Dr. JHT, one of the biggest proponents of MAP in CD believes that food residues from gut lumen as well as enteric flora might exacerbate CD symptoms. So eating healthy to try to limit the number of 'bad' bugs by not feeding them their favorite foods seems like a good idea; even if it won't 'cure' the disease, it could help. It is sad to think about how most GIs would tell me that diet doesn't matter and that Elaine Gottschell's diet and science are not proven to cure CD, when increasing numbers of experts are now saying that maybe diet could play an important role in the disease process. For instance, Dr. Balfor Sartor, who is a strong believer in the microbial flora being part of the cause of CD, and who literally wrote the book on the subject of IBD, believes that foods can promote the growth of 'bad' bacteria and that diet could help.

So why the opposition or the dismissal from some GIs? It certainly can't hurt to eat properly, and by properly, I don't mean according to the Canadian Food Guide.

I am not sure where to get the exact graph, but here is a very similar one. Its projected slope seems to be holding fairly true considering the recent USDA report that showed ~70 of large herds infected.

Here is a Canadian IBD incidence graph from Manitoba. For the incidence to increase this much is pretty scary. This IBD incidence comes from Dr. Bernstein and he was interviewed in the broadcast and he is the expert on IBD incidence and prevalence in Canada.

And here is a newer one, with age-specific incidences:

And Britain; off the chart:

The Johne's curve is supposed to hit 100% in the not too distant future, and the CD curve from the CBC broadcast has started to take a somewhat sharper slope..."good, great, grand, wonderful" - Chris Farley, the bus driver in Billy Madison

billyfish · Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 50

Would it be possible for a full transcript of this to be posted somewhere,

I have the video ok, but the sound from David Kelton, Marcelle Bear, David Crighton part 2 and the next clip are missing.

The total length of the track is 6.36, I have recorded this and there must be an explanation apart from censorship?

Maybe someone outside canada might like to comment?

david.crichton · Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 83

You should be able to get a full length version of it off of YouTube

billyfish · Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 50

Thanks, the video on UTUBE is fine, I can see and hear all of it.

The UK Government has not told dairies to pasteurise milk for longer, some companies did this on a voluntary basis.

The current situation is that the UK Govnment has taken all the necessary steps to get MAP out of the food chain. (since around 1998)

Despite this crohns hospital admissions have doubled.

Taking a balanced view this either means that MAP is unlikely to cause crohns, or MAP is still in the food chain.

I am in the process of trying to convince the UK Government to test our food again. Please sign the petition?

If they refuse, it's time we got people together and got it tested ourselves.

If the UK MAP Strategy has worked, surely this fact could be used to get other govenments to adopt it?

david.crichton · Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 83

I am confused. You said that the UK Government has not told dairies to pasteurize milk for longer but that they have taken all the necessary steps to get MAP out of the food chain?

I am interested because I am also trying to get the Canadian Government to do a large scale test of our food supply - milk and meat. In order to get this to happen, I guess you feel that a petition is the best way to go about it? Is a petition what was done originally to get the UK Government to test? Side note, I had some friends who live in the UK sign both the vaccine and test petitions. Canada has done some small tests which they feel show that are milk is safe; more is definitely needed.

I think that if MAP is out of the milk then it would be a strong indication that other things are causing Crohn's. But maybe not. To play devil's advocate, I could think of a few quick explanations. One, maybe meat is actually the biggest mode of MAP transmission, so pasteurization would not have solved this. Two, because the time from infection to the time of symptoms is so long, maybe a lot of patients had been infected before the precautionary measures and are just now getting sick. Three, what about JHT's work on MAP in rivers and aerosols? Although, this would likely not explain the increase in incidence within urban areas would it? Four, city water. One study tentatively found MAP in city water. Five, other wildlife, even if all the cows are clean, a rabbit could come by and crap everything up. Six, maybe dead MAP is just as immunologically potent as live MAP.

I like the idea of getting the food supply tested without the government's help. Hopefully the strategy has worked; it would be something to take to our government and try to get them to follow suit.

What was the UK strategy exactly? Thanks.